Jack Jurgens's Ministry Library

Panel discussion, Leadership in the home.

[0:03] Very good, well, welcome to the Midland Park Podcast.
We have our guest today, Mr. Gilliland and Mr. Cain. And we will be reading from Ephesians chapter five.
Ephesians chapter number five. Verse number 22, Ephesians 5, 22.
Wives submit yourselves unto your own husbands as unto the Lord.
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, and he is the Savior of the body.
Therefore, as the Church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Husbands, love your wives even as Christ also loved the Church and gave himself for.

[0:57] It, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word, that, he might present it to himself a glorious Church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that it should be holy and without blemish.
So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife, loveth himself.
For no man ever yet hated his own flesh, but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church.
For we are members of his body, of his flesh and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and shall be joined unto his wife, and they too shall be one flesh.
And this is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Nevertheless, let every one of you in particular, So love his wife, even as himself.
And the wife, see that she reverence her husband. Chapter six, verse one.
Children, obey your parents and the Lord for this is right.
Honor thy father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise, that it may be well with thee and thou mayest live long on the earth.
And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
And we’ll ask the Lord to bless the reading of his word.

[2:06] The word that keeps coming to my mind with respect to this topic is confusion.
Confusion. In our modern day, there’s much confusion about gender roles, about gender, in and of itself, and this has contributed to the breakdown in families, and this has leaked into, I’m sure, the minds of people even in this audience in some way or another, maybe and and hopefully to a very small extent.

[2:34] But what we must do is always return to the scriptures and see what precisely are the roles that we have in our families. How should we structure our families?
How should we lead our families?
And that specifically is what we’re going to look at today, the leadership among the family.
I’d like to think specifically about men, but this obviously applies to our wives, and applies to sisters.
It applies to men that are not yet married, men that will be married in a future day, sisters that aren’t married but that will be married in a future day. And so may the Lord help us. We’re going to think first of all in leadership in the home, leading yourself. Before I can lead others, I must lead myself. Secondly, we’re going to think about leading our wives.
Before I can lead my children, I need to be a leader for my wife. And third of all, we’re going to think about leadership with our children. What does it look like like to be a leader for myself, a leader for my wife and a leader for my children.
To take advantage of the time, I’m going to sit down and we’re going to be going through these three topics and asking different questions.
And we trust that this will be helpful to all the families and all the brethren in the audience.
Starting with number one, leading yourself.

[3:47] There’s a few verses here that we won’t take the time to read, but we find in Philippians 4, 9 and in Acts 20, verse 35, you can look those up later, different verses that speak about the Apostle Paul and the imitation or the life that he led before others.

[4:04] 2035 we find the Apostle Paul, Matthew already talked about this, leading the Ephesian elders, calls him over down to Miletus and he reminds him about what he did, the kind of life that he lived.
He emphasizes finances, he emphasizes the preaching, he spoke to them day and night, they saw the way that he worked with his own hands to be an example to the brethren. They saw him, they watched him and they could follow him. And this was a result of the life, the personal life that the Apostle Paul lived, his personal character and his own leadership.
And so I had three questions. I’m not sure if they’re on your outline, but there’s three questions just in general. And then I have some specific questions for my brethren here. And the three questions that we need to ask ourselves are the following.
Number one, can they imitate my habits? And that’s a daunting question to ask your own, your wife and your children. If you think of the different habits that you might have that you go go through in a week.
Could they imitate everything that I do in terms of my habits?
Can they imitate my character?
The way that I speak to people on the phone? You know, I wonder sometimes.
I’m glad nobody here has heard me talk to telemarketers.

[5:09] And you know, sometimes my kids have heard me talk to them and I’m ashamed of myself.
But can they imitate my character? Third of all, can they repeat my decisions?
The decisions that I make for myself?
20 years down the road, when my children are grown, would I want my children to be making the same decisions that I have made? So that’s kind of the contours of the conversation that we’re going to have.
And before I get to specific questions, I just wondered if you had any comments in general about leadership, either of ourselves, of our wives, or of our children.

[5:54] Okay, well then I have some specific questions. Number one, I- Let me do the general one first.
Okay, good. That might be easier than the specific one. Okay, sure, sure.
We’re talking about leading ourselves and part of that is self-control, but of course self-control is the fruit of the Spirit.
So part of my leading myself obviously is that I am under the leadership of the Spirit, under the leadership of the Lord, right? I need a submissive heart to Him if I am going to effectively structure my life.

[6:27] Right, so that’s actually a helpful clarification. We’re not, as my title says here, my apologies, but we’re not necessarily leading ourselves.
We’re being led, allowing ourselves to be led, that the Lord is leading our lives.
Any comments, Brother, on just the personal life before we even get to other people?
No, go ahead. No, that’s fine. All right, so I have some specific questions.
And these are very general. they have to do more with just your personal life and not necessarily your family or your children or your wife.
But I’d like to depend on my brethren here in thinking about getting alone.
How is it that we’re going to have a character that can be imitated?
How is it that we’re going to make decisions that can be imitated?
How can we have habits that can be imitated? But we have to nurture those things in our own lives.
I thought about it this way, and we just heard about this as well, the multitude, the altitude and the solitude, I think if I got that right.
And so starting with our own lives, What are some different habits that we can work into our life in terms of getting alone with the Lord?
Some practical suggestions.
To build our character, we need time alone with the Lord.
What are some practical ways that we can make sure that happens.

[7:35] I already heard about cell phones, so, mental note.
Well, I’m gonna share something that I heard Mr. Gilliland say over 20 years ago, and maybe he’ll expand on this, but this is something that had a really big influence upon me when I was, I don’t know if I was 18 or 20 or something like this, and he encouraged us in our schedules to set one evening a week, more if you could, but set one evening a week entirely aside, for Bible study.
And I did that for years with much joy and pleasure. This was before having to worry about prepare sermons.
It was just the joy of going through the Bible, going through the minor prophets.
I remember those days. For me, it was a Tuesday night.
Sometimes we’d have someone over for supper and when supper ended, Esther and her friend may continue to chat for a little bit and I would go to my office and give myself to the Bible until I couldn’t any longer.
And I look back with great joy on those times, but that had to be set up in the schedule, right?
That had to be something that was as much as possible a non-negotiable.
This is just something, this is what I do on Tuesday evenings.
And maybe Mr. Gillen, you could expand a little bit on that.

[9:01] Are you sure I said that? You didn’t say Tuesdays, but I’m pretty sure you said one night a week.
I don’t remember.
No, but just what you’re saying there, our brethren are saying, you speak about leading life and what is it, leading ourselves.
Isn’t that a fairly basic thing just to realize that the reins of life are in our hands?
Take responsibility for your life.
And seek the Lord’s help in it. But just to recognize that my life will be what I make it, in fellowship with the Lord and with his word. We blame messed up lives on other people.
And when things are derailed and go off, we have all kinds of excuses. It’s a great start when a Christian realizes, my life, I’m responsible for it, and take up the leadership of life and make those kind of decisions that you have been mentioning, Jonathan, and Matthew as well.
The other day we were speaking to a brother down in Mexico in one of the assemblies, and he’s shown gift. He has shown that the Lord has gifted him in terms of teaching.
It’s been difficult because he doesn’t necessarily have the impetus, impetus we’d say in Spanish.

[10:16] He’s not too exercised to study the scripture. So we actually sat down with him and we talked to him about different ways that he can do that.
You already mentioned one of them, setting aside specific times. If it’s not deliberate, it’s not going to happen. If it’s ad hoc and we just leave it to, whenever it’s going to happen, we will not study the scriptures. There must be a deliberate decision that we make.
Continuing on that topic, I’d like to ask a question about specific materials. Now we have, a large group of young men, some of them have already gone, but they told me that they were, going to be listening to the recording. So we have that benefit as well. But for the young men in the a crowd and young sisters who are studying their scriptures.
And I know to a certain extent this is personal and differences in personality and so on.
Could you give us some help on materials, study materials, tools and helps that we can use to bolster our knowledge of the scriptures?
We start with you, Mr. Gilliland.
Well, I maybe haven’t that much advice really to give Brother John.
People often ask me, what’s the best Bible study method?
I don’t think there is one.
You say, how do you study your Bible? I hardly know, I just do it.

[11:31] I just do it. And people get this idea, if I can get a technique, it’ll kind of work miracles, work semi-magic, and I get the real technique and I’ll become a Bible expert, your method won’t suit me and mine won’t suit you.
Time of the day, demands, commitment. Some are good at night, some in the morning.
Some like to study Bible character.
Some like to study Bible books. Some take a chapter.
When you say character studies the best way, not necessarily.
So I think a person’s, what would I say, There’s a very close link between the W-O-R-D and the L-O-R-D.
And my relationship with the Lord will be fed and dictated and directed by my enjoyment of his word.
And I don’t just study the Bible to become an expert in Bible information.
I peruse the word so that I might be closer to the Lord. So maybe motivation, as you were mentioning there, is as big a thing as any, and then the method follows from the motivation.
Right, okay, so getting those things in order. But what if, let our brother Matthew, if he is maybe more specific, I’d be more than happy to have it and hear it.

[12:53] I’m not going to mention any books before you do. So is there anything you want to mention in specific about that? No, our brother’s already mentioned one book. A very good one.
I’m not going to give him too many books. Well, in terms of the specific study materials, I read a book within the last year. It was about studying your Bible. I can’t remember the name, you might have read it yourself. It’s an old book. And he didn’t say anything about technique.
In fact, the technique that he was teaching in the book was just to read and then to read, and then to read and then to read. So just read over and over and over and over again and things will pop out, things will come out. You’ll start to see patterns, you’ll see, repetitions, you’ll see themes, you’ll see the characters and the different details about their lives. So that’d be one of the suggestions that we can give to the young people here, maybe before we ever get to a book. Just stick with this book and then when you’re really, really stuck, then go to a commentary. That’s another topic as well, different commentaries.
We need to be careful with those. Don’t get whatever commentary you can find, the cheapest one on the shelf, but be very careful about what kind of books you’re reading with respect to.

[14:02] Bible study. But I want to get to the last point, which is… I’m sorry, just on that, brother. Maybe, our brother was speaking about development of character and leading your life with character. Maybe character will not be so much formed, by Bible study. I mean as in study to be ready for a Bible read. That will be helpful, but that will not be nearly as formative in character as Bible meditation. Just saturating your soul until your blood and your brain becomes Biblaine, that you actually think, you start thinking Bible, and you’re so impregnated with Bible truth, and that’s a way beyond that. Like there’s the wee daily reading, you read a passage, sometimes people ask me, do you read two chapters a day or one chapter? Sometimes I don’t read a chapter at all.

[15:01] You say, what sort of an unspiritual iceberg are you? You do read your Bible though, right? Oh, once in a while. I can say that I’m I’m turning it over day and night.
Just turning it over constantly and constantly. And if I forget a verse, I have to read it then to look it up.
But all of that, it’s that scripture saturation, more than scripture study, that makes and molds and marks a man. But sorry, I’m derailing the thing there for you.
We enjoy those tangents. Thank you very much.
Because that’s the very thing that our culture won’t allow us, because there’s the pace, the hurry, the productivity, thinking, And what you’re talking about there is taking time to think.
And that’s what the culture doesn’t want to allow, and it’s what’s necessary.

[15:52] Very good. Okay, so that’s the beginning. This is really just the foundation.
Because when we get to the other aspects of leadership in the home, now we’re not, we’re going past the time when you’re preparing. There’s a time to prepare. There’s a time to mold and form your own character. And then comes, I don’t want to say the show, but then comes the test. Then you have to display your character and show that to the family. And we’ll start with leading your wife, being a leader for the wife. And the first questions that I wanted to ask, what I’d like to focus on, first of all, something that is under attack and has always been under attack.
Actually, this is nothing new, but under attack perhaps in a new way, specifically with different ideas and ideologies, such as transgenderism and so on, and all the new ones that have probably come up in the last 24 hours.
But the attack is against not only leadership, but specifically headship, headship.
We don’t have time to go to 1 Corinthians 11, but I wanted to ask Mr. Gilliland, Could you give us a biblical definition of headship?
Perhaps describe how it affects the assembly and then bring it into the family.
Well, there again, Brother John, I would say in what you have read from Ephesians and headship, I would say there are three things and you know them very well in that whole concept.
There’s a relationship that has been established, whatever that relationship, a head is linked to a body.

[17:16] Not like a Lord, a Lord doesn’t need to be linked as such. So there’s a relationship, there’s a connection, there must be a relationship.
In that relationship, there’s a role.

[17:28] And in that role, there are responsibilities. So those three are, so I learn what is my role in a given relationship?
Now if it’s the headship of the Lord, or if it’s the headship in the home, or whatever it is, what is my role in this relationship?
Having established my role then, what are the responsibilities that I discharge to reflect, this relationship and the authority, the authority which that relationship involves?
So you have other things that you want to add to that?
Just to clarify, so it’s more about a role than it is about leadership necessarily.
What is the role? How do we put these things together? What’s the order?

[18:08] Well, I think you’ve hinted at it already, Brother Jonathan. You take Genesis 2.
Adam was made as head. Eve wasn’t made as head. He was head. She was helper.
She was inferior, not one slightest bit inferior. She had a different role in that relationship.
Her role was helper, vital role, important role, an equal role in many.
Adam’s role was head. The devil says, I don’t like this, I’ll invert the role.

[18:47] So instead of speaking to Adam and asking his opinion first, he promoted Eve to be the prime mover and the first mover.
And he reversed the roles, upset the relationship, and then the whole thing went just from there.
But maybe I’m jumping too far ahead. No, not at all. We see the same thing happening among families today. I’m sure this has happened all throughout history as well, but we see this especially pronounced today. I won’t mention the name of the movie because when you listen to this in 10 years, you’ll think, oh my goodness. But the reversal of roles and the breakdown of the family starts with that reversal. If a wife takes the role of a man, of the husband, or if the husband voluntarily takes the role of a wife, then everything below that will break down in the family.
Same thing in the assembly, but in the family, every single aspect of the family will be off in some way. It won’t be able to function properly. But in connection to that, and I’d like to ask you a question, Matthew, what are the limits of that headship, of those, roles? That’s being abused, right? So I’m the head of this family and I say what goes and you are going to wear exactly the clothes that I say, and the color that I say, and I’m being a little bit extreme, but you know what I mean? And just kind of a tyrant inside of the home.
So what are the limits to that headship? We don’t want to abuse it, but we want to be biblical.

[20:11] I think part of that is understanding that headship isn’t about making all of these orders and commands.
So, I mean, me being head in my home doesn’t mean that I sit back and say, tell my wife how to cook the bacon.
Like that’s not me exercising headship.
The head supplies the needs of the body. Colossians chapter two, the head nourishes the body.
So my responsibility is to care for my wife’s head. I bear responsibility in a measure for her spiritual welfare and physical welfare.
So it’s responsibility. I come back to that R word that Mr. Gilliland used.
It’s not like the perks of being head.
It’s the responsibilities that come with being head and caring for her.
Yeah, feeling that responsibility and understanding that yes, you have decisions that ought to be made. That is a part of it.
There is a rule inside of the home, but it’s not so much that I get to rule or I get to to make all the decisions.
But thinking of the responsibility long-term for my wife, I’m responsible, and we’ll talk about this in a little bit, but as a husband, I am responsible for the spiritual well-being, to a certain extent, of my wife.

[21:21] And furthermore, I am responsible for the spiritual well-being of my children.
And that will become evident.
And I know there’s exceptions and there’s difficult situations, and I’m not picking on those types of things, but that will become evident.
It will become evident how I have been using the privilege and the responsibility of being a head inside of my home.
So we’ve looked at what does headship mean, what exactly does it not mean?
We’re not a tyrant, we’re not a disciplinarian, we’re not a dictator inside of the home, but what are different ways that we can do this in a positive way?
So I had some questions regarding, very practical questions with respect to our relationship with our wives.
We’ve read in Ephesians 5 and 6, and that tells us to love our wives.
What are different ways that we can love our wives? I have two suggestions that I’d like to hear more about this.
Should, let me ask it in this way, make it a little bit more interesting.
Should every single husband in this auditorium be reading with his wife every morning?

[22:26] Start with you, Matthew. Mr. Gilliland’s writing something down, so you can go first.
Well, that’s probably not practically possible for, depending on your schedules. So, I mean, to say something like that is to make an extra biblical command. So, I am responsible for a a spiritual tone in my home, but how that’s going to get carried out is not going to be the same in every home.
It’s going to be a little different in different circumstances.

[22:54] But you touched on something there at the end. There is a responsibility with the wife.
How far does that go?
The husband’s responsibility for the wife’s spiritual well-being, how far do we, she has a responsibility herself.
So what’s the connection there? That’s a really good question.
I’ve wondered that too.
Well, you brother, your parents, I’ll ask the question just for help.
For example, speaking about the spiritual well-being of the wife and consideration and so on.
Young children, and now here’s a situation where for the spiritual benefit of my wife, she needs to get to some meetings, right?
But the assembly’s quite small, not too many brethren to take part.
So I really need to get to these meetings to help out.
As a brother, that’s my responsibility. My wife also needs to go.
So how do you balance that?

[23:56] That’s a really good question. Yeah, Jesus Christ. Yeah.
Does a wife then, so the husband recognizes, it’s just, life is challenging.
He has a relationship in the assembly.
Because he’s in the assembly, but say he’s an overseer, we’ll just say, he has a role in the assembly, he has a relationship in the assembly.
With that relationship to the assembly come responsibilities.
As an overseer, his responsibility is to be there, looking after the flock, guiding and directing.
Just so happens that this dear brother also has a relationship in Amari.
And in that marriage, he’s not an overseer, but he’s a husband.
With that relationship, he has responsibilities to his wife and to his children.
So that will all demand, I don’t think there’s one rule covers all, but that will demand a good deal of personal exercise.
And the wife will also maybe in that situation have to decide with her husband and he with her, How much will my subjection to my husband, and my recognition of his role in the assembly, for example, allow me to make extra sacrifices that’ll maybe allow him to be more involved in the assembly than would be normal?
Yeah. See, all of those things, and that’ll not be a cut and dried answer that’ll be two plus two for every case. Yeah, yeah.
I had a question in response, or maybe just a statement in response.

[25:26] Actually, it’s a question. why does she have to stay home with the children?
And again, I know there’s differences of opinion in families and that sort of thing, but as a general rule, she doesn’t need to always stay home with the kids.
One thing I’ll say about, and here’s me waxing eloquent, my oldest is 11 years old, so take it with a grain of salt, but it’s difficult to bring kids to meeting.
We have six children and it’s very stressful. It can be, more for my wife, because I’m usually speaking down in Mexico and she has all the kids in the back.
However, your children will never learn how to sit in meeting if they don’t go to meeting.
Shouldn’t say never, but it will be more difficult for the children to learn how to sit in meeting, if they’re never in the meeting. So I would encourage young families here, if you have young children, bring them to the meetings.
Yes, they’re fussing, you have to take them out, discipline them, this, that, and the other thing, but bring them to the meeting so they are accustomed to this environment and when they’re older, it’ll be a normal thing to come, to sit down and to listen. Do you have any comment on that?
Maybe you have a different opinion, Matthew.
No, I was gonna shift gears a little bit. Do you wanna go longer on that? You go ahead.

[26:35] The other, so my wife has a responsibility to submit to me as head of the home.
That’s going to be, I think she’s gonna find that a lot easier if I am properly submissive to Christ.
Right, so both in my relationship with my children and my wife as I reflect on times, where I’ve said things inappropriate, lost my cool a little bit, as I have a little bit of time and space from that, I realize more than the problem being them, the problem was me and how I was handling stress and something else going on in my life.
And that’s actually why I spoke unkindly.
But as I am learning to be more submissive to Christ, she’s going to find it a lot easier to live under my leadership or headship in the home.
Yeah, so there’s all sorts of stereotypes about, I guess, men and women, everybody.
But with women, they never wanna submit. That’s a stereotype.
And with men they’re domineering and that sort of thing. Well, putting the stereotypes to the side.
I’ve borne that out in my own experience.
It’s a lot harder for my wife to submit to me when I’m failing, when I’m not being a good husband, when I’m not reading the scriptures as I should, when I’m not obeying as I should, I don’t have a good attitude, I’m not reacting, not communicating in a good way and all that.
It’s very difficult. It is her responsibility to submit, but it is very difficult for what we should live with them with understanding, right?

[28:03] Patient with our wives and consider, take responsibility for ourselves first.
This is just a word for all the men in the crowd and you young men who are about to be or might be married in the future, take responsibility for your own spiritual life first, your own obedience first, your submission to Christ first, before you go after your wife and you take her down the list and start hauling her over the coals for all the time she doesn’t listen to you.
But any more comments about that? Okay, so we’ll carry on then with the limits of headship.
What exactly is headship?
I have a few more points here with respect to our leadership of our wives.
Do we have a responsibility as husbands to set the tone in the house with respect to vision?
So a vision for the future or setting the course for the family?
Is this something that is kind of done in a committee? Do we discuss this among each other with the husband and wife?
Or is this something for the husband to decide and bring the family along?
And that kind of gets into the subject of how much we discuss between ourselves.
I’m not sure what the ratio is exactly, but…

[29:11] And well, I just, I think I just come back to this prime responsibility ultimately rest with me.
But what you’re describing is very much a partnership work and it needs to be.
And especially as some of your brothers are obviously outside of your home for many hours a day. So this is not something that he’s just doing, I don’t think in a take charge way. And this is how it’s going to be. I mean, they are partners, they are one, they want to be united in that, and he needs her help greatly in that, and she’s going to have suggestions that he never thought of as well.
So that is, I’m a big believer in marriage being teamwork.
And so while there’s ultimate responsibility with me, this is a team project.
Teamwork with the leader, right?
Sure. Yeah. And what our brethren are saying, perfectly right, generally speaking, or universally Nearly speaking, nearly.
I’m just thinking, I’m just thinking, communication in marriage, harmony in marriage, unity in marriage.
It’s maybe a pity, it’s maybe a pity that Sapphira didn’t say to Ananias, I’m not going down that road.
They both were privy, they both discussed an agreement, they both were in harmony.

[30:33] It was great unity in that marriage, but it was a disaster. There could be unity in a marriage and what’s wrong.
Do jobs like.

[30:43] She said certain things and Job was able to take up responsibility and say, we’ll go no further.
We’ll not curse God and so and so. So communication and unity is great, but there are limitations as you were saying.
Yeah, yeah, very much. To be even more specific about the communication, I think one of the things that are very necessary in a family is discussing with your wife, maybe before your kids are even to this age, when you will be disciplining them, how you’re going to discipline them.

[31:11] How you’re going to raise them. The different decisions that will come down the road, instead of in the moment, you know, you could have a situation where the child is acting up and you’re not home, or maybe you are home, you’re in a different room, and the wife disciplines the child, and is either too lenient, maybe you think, or maybe you think too severe, and you have a different opinion, and then you come in and you start to have an argument, in front of the child.
Well, now you have about two or three more problems on top of the original problem, which was the child that was acting up.
That conversation should not be had in front of the children.
That’s a conversation to have in private with your wife, with biblical principles.
How are we going to do this so that when you go to implement you’re not causing more problems at that time?
I’m just thinking more about communication. Anything you want to add to that, those types of things?
100%. A brother said to me, I was asking him, how are things, how are you doing?
Just a general question.
Oh, he said, David, he probably shouldn’t have said this to me, he said, I’m getting a lot of dumb dinners at the minute.
Never get a dumb dinner.

[32:21] There’s an underlying problem, but there’s no communication.
It’s not being addressed.
And the breakdown in communication is used as a tool of punishment.

[32:32] So all of those things need to be watched. Yeah, very much. Yeah, we have conflict resolution, coming up here at the next point.
Just one thing before, unless you want to say anything more about that.
One thing before we get to conflict resolution, sole care for our wives, checking in on them.
What have you been reading? What have you been studying?
If it is such a case where you have a very difficult agenda, difficult schedule, and you can’t get up at the same time in the morning, or you can’t pray at night at the same time, all those sorts of things, different situations, well, are you checking in on your wife?
Or has it, because of the children and because of the different responsibilities, she hasn’t been able to read her Bible for the past two weeks, three weeks, maybe a month, maybe longer, and you don’t know, and that’s where all these arguments are coming from.
Well, she hasn’t even had, if not alone, me time? What was it?
Time with the Lord, time with the Lord.
And you wonder, why is there so much conflict? And why is there so much tension in the home?
Well, have you checked in on your wife?
So we have a responsibility for soul care, setting the course, the vision for the future.
I need to make sure that it’s clear, clear communication to the wife, clear communication with respect to her soul.
But then when it comes to those conflicts, I’ll just give you one thing that I listened to recently.
And everybody has different personalities, right?

[33:52] So my wife and I, we have strong personalities. And that can cause problems sometimes.
Conflict, you could say.
So one of the things that has helped us recently, has helped me, is that you don’t always have to agree.
Are you an argumentative type person, Matthew? I don’t think so.

[34:13] Okay. I disagree with that, but anyway. So my wife and I were kind of disagreeable.
Recently, I’ve been saying to myself, if we’re just gonna talk about something, you know, we’ll be in even a Bible passage.
Oh, well, I think Melchizedek, I think that actually was a pre-incarnate appearance of Christ.
Well, we haven’t had this actual conversation, but it’s something like we would have.
And well, no, I don’t think he was, you know, it’s just the argument that I gave this morning.
And back and forth, do we actually have to come to an agreement on this?
Or can we shelve this, leave it for later, or maybe not even talk about it again?
There are certain things that we can agree on.
So when it comes to conflict resolution, whether it’s Melchizedek, or whether it’s the dumb meals, or whatever it is that’s going on in the house, we don’t always have to have those conversations if it’s gonna lead to something that’s gonna cause more problems.
But I’m looking for help.
Conflict resolution in marriage. The benefits are that we have a peaceful home, and our children aren’t growing up with arguments and raising of the voice and just a disturbing, not a helpful place to learn.
How come we have more peace in our homes?

[35:30] Just as a bridge from your previous point as well about soul care for your wife and knowing how she is doing. One thing I find helpful in knowing how she is doing is the act of praying together, which doesn’t happen every night, but most nights. And I think it’s a valuable thing.
And as I hear her pray, I can perceive how she’s doing. I can perceive what she’s enjoying from from the Scripture sometimes.
And so that act of praying together, praying together is a wonderful thing with anybody, but praying together with your partner is a wonderful way to get a sense of how they are doing and what’s going on in their heart.
What if she doesn’t like to pray out loud?
So I’m assuming you’re hearing her prayer and you’re hearing the things she’s praying for.
Yeah, I can’t read her mind.
Well, sometimes I can, but. Yeah, the only wife I have does pray out loud, so I’m not sure about that one.
Fair enough, good point, good point. Well, I guess I couldn’t force her to, but I think it’s good.
Yeah, good. Conflict resolution, any help for us?

[36:42] I’ll go ahead, you go ahead. So, I actually, if we’ve heard enough about conflict, I don’t want to have any conflict up here, conflict up here because we’ll need another session after this, but I do want to go down to the next section.
Well, let me ask you, if you guys have a little bit of conflict, sounds like you do sometimes. Once in a while.
Is it really important to you to get that totally cleared before you go to bed at night?
Okay, so I feel like I should be sitting on a couch right now or laying back on a couch right now. Bye.

[37:13] How does that make you feel? I need more me time. But in our particular situation, my personality is I want to get this over with and right now and let’s deal with this and let’s move on and carry on.
There’s things to do and forget this whole business of being mad at each other and all that sort of thing.

[37:33] But my wife is a little different. She can’t deal with it right away.

[37:36] So I’ve had to learn, I’m learning, I’m learning, slowly learning, very slowly, that I can’t push her to deal with something if she’s not ready to deal with it.
There’s some patience that is needed. And I wonder if that’s just a tendency that we have, as men, we’re men of action, we want things to be done, but there’s feelings involved, and there’s, as I said, different personalities, so you have to be patient with people, give them time, and later on revisit these different topics.
That’s something that’s been helpful for us.
Is that what you were thinking about? Yeah, well, I’m thinking of this verse in Ephesians 4, don’t let the sun go down in your anger.
It’s really hard to go to bed angry, really hard to go to sleep angry, but late night conversations aren’t really useful things in our homes.
My wife will get a second wind.
I don’t know if I get a first wind some days, so there’s going to be some conversation to alleviate the frustration so that we go to sleep. Okay.
This is something we should talk about tomorrow after we’ve had a night of rest.
Certainly that’s a big thing with my kids.
I recognize, look, nine o’clock at night is not the best time to drop a bomb on them or to have some big discussion with them.
Let’s wait till after we’ve had a night of rest and set aside some time to talk about it a little better.
So the timing of dealing with conflict in every aspect of life I think is a big thing and you don’t want to go to bed angry, so you’ve got to deal with it in some measure but that may not be the best time to deal with the issue in full.

[39:03] So I put this in the category of leadership in the home because I think, I do believe that we as men should take the lead.

[39:11] Not wait for our wife to always deal with it, waiting for our wife to always deal with the, different problems in the home, but take the lead, get ahead of these problems, go to our wives, and obviously the change in our character will help with this, but taking the lead, even in conflict resolution, to maintain a peaceful home. I think many of us have experience with, and maybe here in the assembly, more often children in the Sunday school and this sort of thing, they’re children that are growing up in chaotic homes, and the parents are fighting, like cats and dogs, and every day.
And what’s the product of that? Well, you see kids as they grow up, they reproduce those things in their own homes.
They reproduce that in their behavior as we see them in the Sunday school.
And these are things that we don’t want in our home, a peaceful home so that they can grow and be raised to be faithful believers once they believe the Lord.
But I wanna come to our next. I wanna ask you one more thing.
Yes, sure, go ahead. Okay, so you’re talking a lot about leading and there’s some guys here who have a very different personality from yours.
Okay. So this, yeah. So this, this idea of, of, of leading this concept, sort of a, it, appeals to you. It’s a, I’m not saying leading is easy, but you, you get this and you’re, you’re up for it.
Yeah. Let’s go. But some, some brothers just in their personality, they’re a much quieter, struggled to do that.
And maybe their wife is a very strong and outgoing personality. So in that, in that setting, what, what does this look like? I’d love to hear from both of you. There’s lots of marriages I see like that so…

[40:41] How does that work? I have something to say about it. No, go ahead. I’ll come in later. Go ahead.
Okay, I’ll go first. I think in those situations, I’ve seen that before, I think the best thing in that situation is for the wife who is stronger, has a really strong personality, I think she needs some self-awareness. Self-awareness that yes, I am stronger than my husband if I allowed myself, he would allow me to take the lead in the home. And I need to be to be aware of that because that’s not the biblical model.
So if there is a sister here in the audience or hearing this recording and you notice that in your own personality, you will take charge and you will make the decision and we’re gonna do this and then we’re gonna do that and then the children will be like this and this, that and the other thing, you need to rein that back.
Those are good things. It’s good to have that, there are benefits to having that personality but in terms of the roles in the home, if the wife is always making the decisions, the roles have been reversed.
Throttle that back and give space for the man to come forward.
Maybe sometimes in those kind of situations, the man would lead, but because he doesn’t maybe have that personality and the wife is definitely gonna fill that role, he just steps back.
But if she steps back a little bit, he would go forward and he would lead.
But I mean, it’s both.
I’m not putting the blame on the wife with a strong personality, but self-awareness, I think.

[42:05] No, so I’m just asking, are you, brethren, describing something a little bit like, Isaac-Rebecca relationship?
Obviously, Isaac was quite a retiring, seemingly a retiring personality.
Rebecca had her own ideas, her own vision, was quite manipulative.
She made the first move.
She called the shots, she made the arrangements.

[42:31] Showed favoritism, all of those things that we know from the story, manipulated Jacob to the disadvantage of Isaac and Esau, and well, we know the end result of all that.
It was a home just in quite a bit of chaos. Is that a Bible example of it, Matthew, or do you think?
Yeah, so what should she have done?
That’s what I was going to ask, yeah. Yeah, I beat you to it. I beat you to it. I asked you first.
Yeah, well, I think she should have had more regard for what she knew from the word of the Lord. There’d been a revelation given, two sons are in thy womb, and the elder shall serve the younger, and I think if instead of imposing her own will, she had submitted to the word of the Lord, things would have been altogether different.
So in that case, you know, she could have shared this concern with him.
Maybe she was more perceptive, as is often the case.
She may have more perceived the problem, but she could have discussed that with Isaac, and maybe together, yeah, they recount these words of the prophecy that were given, and he helps her realize, no, we can trust in the Lord to work this out, instead of just taking that into our own hands.

[43:52] We’re thinking about a situation which you’re already married.
We could give some, we could speak to the young men in the crowd, young sisters in the crowd not married yet. If you recognize these tendencies in yourself right now, well that’s ideal because you, can start to work on them. Now wait till during marriage you’re going to learn and you will learn and you will learn and you will learn and you will learn and you’re slowly developed and transformed, and nurtured and engaged and I forget the third one here at the school, but you’re changed over the years of marriage. Transformed. Transformed, yeah definitely transformed. So during your marriage, you will be trans, but before marriage, this is a perfect time to be working on your character flaws and your personality defects and all this sort of thing, looking forward to are you, maybe there’s a young man in the crowd today and you’re not that sort of person that’s going to be at the front and leading the charge, that’s fine.
Not everybody’s supposed to be at the front, not everybody’s supposed to be at the back, not every, there’s a role and there’s a place that you’re supposed to be, but be aware of that.
Person, then start working on yourself. You can change your personality to a certain extent.
Start working on yourself to, at the very least, be able to be a leader in your marriage, to make the right decisions. You don’t have to have a loud voice. You don’t have to have a big presence, but you can make the right decisions in your marriage, starting with who you marry and so on. But any more comments about leadership in the home or conflict and this sort of thing?

[45:21] Maybe I should have mentioned earlier, you’ve already hinted at it.
We live in a world where nearly immediately in a difficulty, someone, what are my rights?

[45:36] I’m going to assert my rights. My rights are being trampled on.
I think maybe scripture comes at things from a different angle.
That’s not the question.
Not what are my rights and I’m going to fight for my corner here.
Are my responsibilities? Not what are my demands? What are my duties in this relationship? And what can I actually do to help the situation?
Yeah, that’s very helpful, looking at the big picture. As opposed to, you know, let’s say there’s a million arguments throughout a marriage, you know, generally speaking, the time frame of a normal marriage. Well, is the point to win as many arguments as possible? Or is the point to lead and to transform and to, help, to be an example to your wife. It’s not about winning every single argument. Take a step back and say, okay, I need to hear this myself, but anyway, take a step back, say, okay, maybe in the big picture, it’s not so important that I stand on my rights right now. The important thing is being a good example to my wife or being a good example to my children. Leading yourself, leading yourself, leading your wife, leading your children.
Fatherhood and leadership. Fatherhood is a big problem nowadays.

[46:50] There’s an absence of fatherhood. Again, brethren here, I’m sure you have experience with children in the Sunday school where we see this most of all. Thankfully, not so much in the assemblies that we know of. We see children, they don’t have a father, there’s only a single mother.
Many, many times. We see this in Mexico, I’m sure it’s the case here as well.
Children in the home have a mother, maybe she has to work, spending most of her time, and the children are at home, or they go to school, they come back, and there’s no leadership, there’s no guidance in the home.
We should, I just wanted to say that we need to appreciate the privilege that we have as fathers to guide our children.
It’s a privilege. We see the examples, we see the product of what happens out in society, but this is a privilege for us.
So there’s three things that I wanted to mention about this that we can talk about.
Attending to the souls of our children, attending to the mind of our children, the minds of our children, and attending to their hearts.
Just thinking about the soul, I just wanted to say this as an introduction, and we can begin to talk about them.
In terms of attending to my children, my child’s soul, they’re always looking at me.
I know they’re always looking at me. Even when they’re not looking at me, they’re looking at me, they’re listening to me.
Your children are too, always, all day long.
They’re playing, they’re watching, they’re observing.
If I talk about sports all day.

[48:18] If I talk about money all day, if I’m just talking about my work, my kid, what are my kids going to talk about? They’ll always be talking about sports, and they’ll always be talking about money, and they’ll always be talking whatever it is. They’re observing, and they’re imitating. The things that come out of my mouth, the things that they see me do, they’re going to imitate that. The second point I wanted to make just, and we can expand on these and give different examples. If the assembly, if that’s not a priority for me, it’s not going to be a priority for my children. If I don’t go to meeting, why would my children go to meeting? If when I’m raising my children, I don’t bring them to meeting and as they’re older, encourage them to come to meeting and encourage them in the scriptures and this sort of thing. Well, what’s going to happen when they’re older? No, they’re not going to have any encouragement to go. They’re not going to be in the habit of going. Why would they go? I didn’t I didn’t see my parents, I never saw my dad read his Bible.
I never saw, my dad went to meeting when he could. He was always working all the time, it wasn’t a priority.
These things will be replicated and they will be repeated in their lives.
So I’d like to think about these three different categories, the soul, I’m thinking in terms of attending to their souls, three things that we can think about, the meetings and the evangelism, mission work, I’ll explain what I mean by that.
In terms of the mind, how can we attend to their minds in terms of, I had a question before this actually.

[49:42] What kind of habits and disciplines can we form in the home when we’re teaching our children?
Bible reading and praying and that sort of thing.
And then number three, the heart. What kind of vision are we going to set for our children?
But let’s start at the beginning in terms of their souls.
How can we as fathers, as leaders in the home, attend to the souls of our children?
And maybe this is just because I’m in mission work or whatever, we’re down in Mexico, not here in the United States.
I’m thinking often about evangelism, that they have a heart for evangelism. I care for the lost.
I would like to give them that example. One of the first things that we can do, is just bring them to meeting.
Just come to meeting. It’s important to be at the meeting.
It’s important to listen to the preaching.
It’s important to listen to the prayers of the brethren. But another thing, a little bit closer to home, or a little more specific, would be involving them in some way, shape or form in evangelism.
Obviously, they’re not gonna come up and preach and that sort of thing.
I tried to when some of them were younger and some of them are still at this age.
And if you go door to door, you can bring little Bobby with you and he can carry your tracts.

[50:49] And that’s not the only way to evangelize, but if you’re going to do door to door, you can knock on the door and Bobby hands you the tract and you give that to the person, they hear you speaking to them. Different ways that we evangelize, bring them to gospel meetings.
You’re going to visit someone, talk to them about the gospel, even bring them along.
Ways that we can involve our family and attend to their souls in this way.
And I just want to put a plug in here at the end, and then I’d like to hear you, men speak. Mission work.
It’s not for everyone. Not everybody’s going to be a missionary, not everybody’s called to go, but you, could visit missionaries.
There’s a bunch down in Mexico. It’s not too far away.
I think it’s about a five, five hour flight from here.
You can bring your children, seed sowers and all these different things that happen, bringing your children to these different areas.
Matthew talked about doing it earlier, down at Hermosillo, so that they can see the work, the different works around the world, different places you can go, and they’re watching and they’re observing.
When I was a kid, some of my best memories, worst and best memories, because a lot of time I was bored, to be honest.
But I remember my dad would always take me with him to a place called Tri-Cities, Washington.
I don’t know if anybody’s ever been there. Tri-Cities, there used to be a work there, and they would go in the summer, and they, would hand out texts, and my dad would preach the gospel, or he would at least evangelize to different people and always take me with them.
At the time, I didn’t appreciate it.

[52:10] At the time, I wasn’t thinking, oh, I’d like to be a preacher someday.
I was pretty bored most of the time.
But in retrospect, as I look back, I wonder about how, what kind of format, what kind of effect that was having on me as a young child. But attending to their souls, what are different things that we can do to attend to the souls of our children?
And you could speak on any one of these three, not necessarily just the souls.
Just, I’ll ask a question for you of more experience Matthew, Jonathan, attending to their souls.

[52:42] If we read that, their soul salvation, of course, a priority, keeping that gospel and so on that you have mentioned.
What about attending to their souls in the sense of psychology, their whole emotional well-being, treating them as persons, not just religious machines, that have to be gospel hall processed, but whole persons emotionally, and what I’m wanting to ask, what does it mean in the text you read, chapter six, verse four, don’t provoke your children to wrath?
What would a, I would take it, that wouldn’t be looking after their souls, that would be doing them psychological damage of some kind or other.
How would a parent provoke them to wrath, or how would a parent stimulate them to what is good?
That’s what I’m thinking about. Yeah, yeah, great. Matthew, go ahead, I’ve been speaking quite a bit.

[53:38] Oh, I gotta think for a couple hours, so you go ahead.
Well, one of the questions I wanted to ask in connection to this, in terms of provoking our children to wrath and that sort of thing.
And maybe this is a little more specific to a full-time worker or preacher, but I could expand to anyone else who’s very involved in evangelism.
I think there’s a point of diminishing returns, right?
So we expose our children to the gospel and you’re giving them tracts every day and are you saved yet, Johnny?
And have you thought more about this, Johnny?
And every day and every night before they go to sleep and treating them as if they’re thinking about this all day long. But I wonder if sometimes we could almost push them away from salvation by so much emphasis and so much focus on it.
I mean, you hear stories, I don’t know these people personally.
You know, they took their kids out to give tracks every Saturday afternoon, never went to the park, never went out for ice cream, never did things with the children, just always evangelism and evangelism, and the children rebelled.
So there’s a balance there. It’s a difficult balance to know how much and when to throttle back and when to keep going and that sort of thing, but.

[54:51] Like in all the relationships of life, We have an ideal picture, get married, exercise, problems come in the marriage, difficulties, real she is the, oh, I’ll tell you what happened, I married the wrong person.
Wasn’t the Lord’s will. She wasn’t the right one. That’s a cop-out. That’ll not do.
Adam married the right person. She was the only one. Turned out bad. There was no doubt that Isaac married the right person. Rebecca had all that big, long story, and yet the marriage got into problems. So, while we try and follow all these principles, there’s no guarantee that we keep certain things, tick certain boxes, and then we just say, oh, it was wrong. Then parents bring up children, do their best. Children turn out very rebellious after the best upbringing. The parents, say, well, it’s… And they beat themselves up and say, I mustn’t have been a good parent.
Wasn’t a good parent. Children not… Well, the Lord said, I brought up children.

[55:59] And they rebelled. So I think he was a good parent. So if you have a marriage in difficulty, the automatic answer is not, I’ve married the wrong person.
And if you have children who have turned out rebellious, the automatic explanation is not that you have been a bad parent.
Because in scripture, the scripture shows the very, and yet we aim at these ideals and these principles very much so.
Much. I think it weighs on the conscience of many people who have children that have rebelled when they’re older. And there’s always the two extremes where we make excuses. But then on the other hand, sometimes we’re too hard. It wasn’t necessarily the parents.
There could be situations where it was the parents’ fault when a child doesn’t turn out.
That exists, that category. But there’s other situations where it wasn’t their fault, and they were great, amazing parents, in fact, and the children still didn’t turn out. I think, I think, I wanted to ask this as a question, but I’m not sure if I want to just throw it on you, but I’m thinking about this.
What can we say to those parents, they’re past this stage, the children are grown up, not as much interest in spiritual things.
What’s the best way for a parent in that situation to interact with their children?
Again, there’s too much or there’s too little.
What are things that parents can do faced with that kind of situation?

[57:23] Well, finding ways to maintain or strengthen that relationship is key.
So maybe there’s something that your child, even an adult child, enjoys, and it doesn’t really excite you too much, but for the sake of relationship with them and contact with them, maybe it’s something that you could become familiar with.
Maybe it’s something that you could engage in with them.

[57:51] Their respect and it facilitates more opportunity for discussion and encouragement of them.
So finding ways to maintain that relationship and build that relationship is key and that does start when they are little.
You know, children are supposed to play, they’ll play in the streets in the kingdom and the great thing about having children is that you get to play with them and it’s a wonderful thing and I think back to a brother who’s now in heaven and he had a pretty big executive position, a very busy life. And, uh, you know, people ask, how do you make time for your family? Well, that, that just got scheduled in his calendar. And so he, scheduled various things in his calendar. He had to schedule business things in his calendar, but he scheduled fun things in his calendar with his family. And if somebody asked for a meeting at that time, well, no, it can’t do that. Sorry, that’s blocked off. So making that time happen, like in all of life, it doesn’t just find itself, we have to make it as a valuable thing, in building lasting relationships with them.

[58:55] Thanks, Matthew, that was very helpful. Coming to the next point, we had a very specific question, or I had a very specific question about how to implement these different habits in the lives of our children.
Some people here have young children, as we can see, different habits in terms of informing their minds about the scripture.
So we wanna deal with their soul, We’re concerned about their souls, the psychology, we’re concerned about their salvation, but when it comes to their mind, it’s our responsibility to teach our children about the scriptures.
What are some ways that we can do that?

[59:27] A specific schedule, a specific regimen? Do they have to memorize large chunks of scripture?
Or what are some practical things that young families can do with their young children, maybe not on a daily basis, but as often as possible, in order to inform their minds?
It has to start when they’re young.

[59:46] So what are the different things that we can do? First, I just wanna highlight that the prime responsibility for the biblical education of my children is with the parents.
It’s not with the Sunday school.
Now, I love Sunday school, and I’m so thankful for the Sunday school teachers in my children’s life and in my own life, and I love that work, and it’s wonderful, it’s a big help, but I can’t just leave the Bible education of my children to the Sunday school.
It’s my prime responsibility. Sunday school’s gonna support us in that, and I wanna know what’s being taught in those classes too, but the responsibility lies with us as parents.
So on a day-to-day basis, and I actually agree with that, I think sometimes we get into this mode where we outsource the teaching of our children to the Sunday school.
Well, we don’t really need to read it to the kids because they go to Sunday school, and they need to memorize their verse for Sunday school, and they need to read that certain chapter for Sunday school, and our role is it’s outsourced to the Sunday school.
Well, it’s not, it’s actually, it’s my responsibility as a father to lead and my wife’s responsibility as well, to teach and to inform these children, and not the brethren or the believers in the assembly, though they can do that in certain contexts.

[1:00:58] I was gonna give a controversial opinion on that, but we’ll just keep going to the practical aspect of this.
Well, I was gonna ask you on that, Brother John, what exactly does that verse mean?
Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he shall not depart from it.
So train him up, teach him in the Sunday school, and scriptures in John 3, 16, and when he’s old he gets saved.
Is that, or when he’s older he gets saved. Is that, what’s exactly that verse talking about?
I’d like to hear what you think about that.

[1:01:35] I’m inclined to think, train up a child according to his way.

[1:01:42] That is, don’t force the personality of a child. So I’m a farmer, I have a son, and he’s going to have to be a farmer, even though the bent of his life and his aptitude is to be an accountant. But because I’m a farmer, I will twist the bend of his life, or the inclination of his life, I will twist that to suit me.
Far better, says the proverb, take the child according to the inclination, in a good sense, his inclination, and it will develop the full potential of his personality.
I don’t think it’s a promise that good training will always produce a spiritual child.
It’s more counsel on how to train up a young plant to grow in a specific direction, but that’s only a suggestion.
Yeah, no, I think that’s very helpful.
It’s stressful being a parent.
You’re thinking about the future. You want them to turn out perfectly.
You want them to get the best grades. You want them to know everything.
You want people to think they’re amazing.
You want people to think they’re smart. You want people to think they’re cute.
And there’s all these different kind of introspective thoughts that go through your mind when you have children, but we really need to come back and just de-stress, as we’ve heard, and depend on the Lord and lean on the word.
If we’re teaching them the scripture and we’re teaching them the way that they should go, we need to leave that with the Lord.
But one of the things I want, just on a very practical note.

[1:03:10] In the mornings, or maybe it’s in the evening, for our family, it works in the morning, might be different for you.

[1:03:17] Bring the children together, put them all in the same room, turn the cell phone off, all the things that are gonna interrupt.
The scriptures, this is just us, You do not need to do this, just what we do at home.
We read the scriptures with them, we do the memory verse, and then we sing a hymn.
And I wanna tell you those are some of the most, those are some of the most precious times.

[1:03:49] Some of the most precious times we have with our family, with our children.
Around the Word, put the Word in their minds, and then praise and adoration to the Lord.
Never regret doing it.
And so I commend that whatever way you do it, you do not need to copy the way, whatever way works for you, getting the Word into their minds.
Those children seeing their parents, they might not understand.
They’re singing those words, those words might not mean anything to them if they’re not saved, but they’re seeing their parents enjoy, Their parents speak about these things.
Their parents enjoy and grow in the Lord, and that will make a massive impact on their life.
They don’t need to imitate us, Matthew, do you have a routine with your kids that…

[1:04:34] Yeah, but we actually try and mix it up on purpose at times.
So at times, part of the reason is that we have two kids in one age group, two kids in another age group, and so it’s a little bit like dealing with two separate families, sometimes we feel like, and what we’re reading with one group, we may focus a bit more with them at a time, and other times we may be focused on reading something that’s more pertinent, to the younger children.
At times we’re just reading the scriptures, other times it may be a Bible storybook, sometimes Sometimes maybe it’s a scripture verse with our older ones.
We’ve read some Lee Strobel question and answers.
Other times it’s been a little book everyone, a child should know, fantastic book, about Christian history and things like that.
So we’re reading different things and I think that adds some stability and security and peace in a way that I can’t actually fully understand right now.
But that process that what’s important to our family is to spend time with the Lord together.
That’s a healthy thing. How you may work that out may vary, but it’s a valuable thing.

[1:05:41] Thank you. Important to spend time with them. The soul, attend to their souls. Do we have time for one more point? Attend to their souls, attend to their minds, and attend to their heart. What I have in mind with this is the kind of vision that we want to set forth for, the children. I’ve noticed that a lot of families, and I’m not actually at the stage yet, so, I’m gonna ask the question, I’ll say a few things.

[1:06:03] But I notice in some families it’s difficult to find a balance, and maybe it’s not a balance, I don’t know what the ratio is, but it’s difficult when kids get to the point where they’re about to leave or they’re going to school.
They’re going to choose what kind of university to go to, what career to have.
Matthew mentioned the schedule you’re gonna choose and what kind of criteria you should use when you’re going to choose your classes and so on.
What kind of emphasis do we wanna give to our children?
I’ve noticed in certain families, there’s a massive emphasis on the career.
This could be a cultural thing or just a personal thing, massive emphasis on the career to the expense or at the expense of the assembly.
Well, little Bobby has to be a doctor. I mean, what else would he do?
Well, he has to be a lawyer because he couldn’t be a construction worker.
That would be a shame.
Or he has to go into this field or he has to do this or the other thing.
And even if he can’t go to meetings for the next five, six, seven, 10 years while he’s getting his doctorate, nothing wrong with getting a doctorate, by the way.
We’re not shaming education in any way, shape, or form.
But he has to do this, and even at the expense of the assembly.
Now, I’m not there yet, so I don’t know the answer to this. Are you there yet? No.
Nope. This is something that we need to think about in terms of the scriptures, when our children are not only in the house, but they’re leaving the house.

[1:07:32] Simply because they need to go to school doesn’t mean that they have to abandon the assembly.
That’s what I mean by setting the vision for the home.
Early, at the beginning.
What is the kind of life that we want to lead? We want a life that is devoted to the scripture, devoted to Christ, and devoted to the assembly.
And for some reason, there’s a point in our lives where we can abandon the assembly.
Not in every case, but in some cases.
I think that we kind of need to rethink that a little bit.
We do, and I mean, part of that is as they are growing up, we are gradually reducing our control of their life, gradually letting them make more decisions so they’re learning to make those right decisions.
And that is a gradual thing, and it’s I’m learning right now is a very, very hard thing to let go, but you need to in some measure because they’re, when you’re talking about encouraging them, the fact is they’re gonna have to make some decisions on their own.
And we need to, we’re encouraging them to make those right decisions, but they also need to learn to make those decisions that are healthy between them and the Lord.

[1:08:35] Very good. Brother, I have a question about, you went to school, you studied.
Could you give us, we have all these young men here, young sisters, they’re at that age, school, time management, choices to make, go to meeting, don’t go to meeting, homework, this, that.
Could you help us with the right priorities, criteria? Well, to be honest, Jonathan, One of the things that simplified life greatly for me, and I know there are, in this country, perhaps distances and all those things, I didn’t have to contend with that.
One of the things that simplified greatly, I’m in a local assembly.
I’m a contributing member in the assembly. I’m responsible as a member to be at the meeting.
So business, career, choices, opportunities, I had quite a number of offers, absolutely.
Nothing to boast about. You say, was that difficult? Not really that difficult.
I am a local assembler.

[1:09:33] That’s point number one. Everything else fits around my commitment to the Lord and his people, in the assembly. Let all the other things fall into place around the assembly. If they don’t fit in, well then leave them out. I know that’s tough advice in a very simple, failing, flickering way. That’s the principle I try to follow and I have absolutely no regrets. Very good. Thank you, Thank you, that’s very helpful. That summarizes the panel today, Leadership in the Home.
Leading yourself, being led by the Lord, leading yourself.
One of the main themes that I’ve noticed throughout this conversation is taking responsibility for ourselves.
Not blaming others, not standing on your rights, taking responsibility for yourself.
Being an example, even to your wife, but even in the relationship with the wife, taking, responsibility for ourselves, our obedience to the Lord.
And as we do that, and we are an example to our children, and we show them the right way to go, we rest and we lean on the Lord. We lean on his word and we leave them with him.
So may the Lord help us to be better leaders in our home.
Tweedie. We’ll close in prayer and then David will come up with some announcements.

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