Jack Jurgens's Ministry Library

Panel discussion, Leadership in the assembly.

[0:01] You could open your Bible to 1 Timothy 3, please.
Our subject title is Leadership in the Local Church. And this is a little bit intimidating, honestly, for a young man such as myself to be leading this.
So that’s why I’ve got Johnny here beside me.

[0:20] And Mr. Gilliland as well. And it’s intimidating because I know there are a number of brothers in front of me and you’ve served as overseers and you know a lot more about this work than I do. I’m aware of that.
Our comments this afternoon are really, I think, targeting younger men in particular, future leaders in local churches.
And to those who will not be leaders, and to beloved sisters, this meeting is not irrelevant to you for at least three reasons.

[0:47] Number one, it’s good for you, as it is for all of the assembly, to recognize those whom the Holy Spirit is fitting for this work.
Secondly, as a sister, you may one day be married to an overseer, and you can be a great help to him.
Thirdly, remember that the shepherds themselves are sheep, and they need your prayer and your support.
Now, if you have the handout, you have a broad outline in front of you that’s going to facilitate our discussion.
This is a little bit challenging. We’re not just focused in one passage, but a topic, So there’s gonna be some wide ranging conversation.
And I gave the brothers about 16 hours notice of some questions that I will throw at them that will help direct us to some practical discussions.
The outline says, the call for shepherds, men who will lead, the characteristics of shepherds, men whom we can follow, and the charge to shepherds, men who will feed and tend us.
Let’s notice this verse in 1 Timothy 3, Verse number one.

[1:53] This saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to be an overseer, in our King James, if anyone aspires or desires the office of a bishop, if anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble work.
Has come to Acts chapter 20.

[2:29] Acts 20, verse 17, now from Miletus, he’s sent to Ephesus and summoned the elders of the church. Notice who he summons, the elders.
Come down now to verse 28.

[2:42] Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as overseers, to shepherd, to feed the church of God, which he purchased with his own blood.
I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.
Men will rise up even from your own number and distort the truth to lure the disciples into following them. Therefore, be on the alert.
Remembering that night and day for three years, I never stopped warning each one of you with tears.
And now, I commit you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all who are sanctified.
Verse 35, in every way I’ve shown you that it is necessary to help the weak, by laboring like this and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, because he said it is more blessed to give than to receive.
After he said this, he knelt down and prayed with all of them.
So notice that the brothers who were addressed as elders back at verse 17, he now says, he calls them overseers at verse number 28.
So the elders are also the overseers, and then they are told to feed or to shepherd.

[4:00] The Church of God. The shepherd is the word pastor. In Spanish, are they the same word?
Shepherd and pastor? Yeah. All right. Smart Latin language people. So the word pastor, that’s just the Latin word for shepherd. So shepherd and elders and overseers, three separate titles for the same group of men. You get them all identified by these multiple terms. They are elders because they are mature. They are overseers because they are responsible. They are pastor-shepherds because they feed and protect. And in Hebrews 13, they are leaders because they set an example and, they direct. And in the New Testament church model, this group of men lead the local church in plurality. Not one lead pastor assisted by a supporting group of elders, but a group of pastor, elder, overseers who shepherd the flock of God, for the protection and the spiritual growth of the flock and for the glory and honor of the chief shepherd. While leading the flock, they are not lords over the flock. Let’s read a few verses, one more passage, 1 Peter chapter 5 5, please.

[5:18] 1 Peter 5, verses 1 to 5.
I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and witness to the sufferings of Christ as well as one who shares in the glory about to be revealed, shepherd God’s flock among, you, not overseeing out of compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you, not out of greed for money, but eagerly, not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.
And when the chief shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
In the same way, you who are younger, be subject to the elders, all of you clothe yourselves with humility toward one another because God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.”.

[6:24] A picture of people like a sheep under the Lord’s shepherd care is very common and a very precious imagery in the scriptures.
And Peter, you were as sheep going astray, but you’ve returned to the shepherd and the, overseer of your souls.
And the scripture also commonly uses that figure of a shepherd for the leaders of his people.
So David is presented as a shepherd king and a lovely figure of the Lord Jesus.
And remember the scene when the Lord had compassion on the people because they were as sheep without a shepherd.
What that phrase means is there was no one to lead them.
No one to lead them.
So the burden of my heart in this time we have together is just to remember younger brothers in particular, local churches will always need shepherds who are willing to step, up to lead and to feed.
The Bible doesn’t say that we need eloquent preachers, but it does say we need godly leaders.
So we’re going to start here, Brothers, point one on the outline, the call for shepherds, men who will lead, and I leave it open to the two of you for a moment.
If there’s any general comments that you would like to make pertaining to this, please feel Very free.

[7:47] I was just going to say, Brother… That’s good.
I’m just going to mention, Brother Matthew, you referred to one of the passages.
There are five, if I remember correctly, five Bible passages that describe people that have no shepherd.
In Numbers 27, Moses asked the Lord to provide a leader that will go out and bring the people in.
Go in and out before them, that they be not a sheep without a shepherd.
So if there’s no shepherd, a shepherd is needed to give direction.
You have mentioned that.
The next passage is 1 Kings chapter 22, and Micaiah said that he had a vision of Israel scattered upon the hills as sheep without a shepherd.
So we need a shepherd for direction in Numbers 27, going it out.
We need a shepherd for unity to keep the sheep together.
Then there’s a reference in Zechariah chapter 10, and it says, they go their way as a flock.
They are troubled, as sheep that have no shepherd.

[9:05] So we not only need shepherds for direction, and we need shepherds for unity to keep the sheep from being scattered tither, thither.
We need shepherds for peace and for calm.
They are troubled like those that have no shepherd. Matthew chapter 9 is the fourth reference, if I remember.
The Lord saw the people, and they were distressed, and they fainted as sheep that had no shepherd.
So sheep needed shepherd for strength.

[9:33] And then of course, in Mark chapter 6, he saw them as sheep having no shepherd, and, the time was far spent, and they needed food.
The people were hungry.
So the shepherd is needed for direction.
He’s needed for unity.
He’s needed for calm. He’s needed to give believers strength, and he’s also needed to provide food.
So all of those pictures give us an insight into a situation that doesn’t have a shepherd, and it’s quite demanding.
That’s very helpful. I’m surprised those weren’t alliterated.
I’ll give that to you, but that’ll… Okay, all right, a little bit later.
Johnny? General comments now. Okay.
All right. Our first point, the call for shepherds, men who will lead, and the call for men who will lead, let me just ask my brothers here, as you contemplate the scene of local church, testimony, and you both are in different places at times, and in light of the scriptures that we’ve read, what do you think young men need to be thinking about in relation to this work?
Or what would you say to young men who maybe have a speck of desire to serve the Lord and His people in this way?

[10:47] I think chapter three would lead us to think that the very first thing that she- Of what book? I’m sorry. First Timothy chapter three.
Yep. So first Timothy three would lead us to think that the very first thing that a young man should be thinking about is actually his character.
Before he ever thinks about the work, how to conduct a visit, how discipline ought to be carried out in an assembly, so on and so forth.
Number one, your character before the Lord. If you do not have the character described in 1 Timothy 3, you have no business leading the Lord’s people.
And that’s really good for all of life. Character is key, obviously, and we’ll deal more with character in that second point, but that’s very valuable, thank you.

[11:33] Again, a very general point. Brother Matthew, Moses, who became a great leader, as we all know, I think one of the early things that’s said about Moses in Exodus 2, that he saw their burdens.
And I think it touched his heart just to see his people, the Lord’s people, and the burdens that they carried.
And having felt their burdens and having seen their burdens, then he became the man whom the Lord later used to relieve their burdens.
So maybe that’s one of the things that even a younger man can see, the cares and the burdens and the hardships of the Lord’s people and have a heart for them.
And I would link that with the carry.
I mean, it’s not as if it’s, you work on your character for 10 years and you never think about the believers.
And then once you’re done working on your character, then you can start thinking about believers.
But those things happen simultaneously.

[12:25] So even as young men, you can be looking around the assembly and even though you are not going to address such and such a problem, you can be thinking about it, praying about it, and even thinking about what the biblical way of addressing said problem would be.
In fact, I think that blends in with the truth that the Holy Spirit fits people and raises people up.
One of the reasons or one of the ways that the Spirit guides people to different things is according to the burden that they have.

[12:52] Different ways that you could find your gift or your role of service in an assembly, but part of that is sensing what burden has God placed upon your heart, and maybe the reason that you have that burden is because God wants to use you to meet that need.
So I think that’s part of the Spirit directing certain people in this work.
There could be some bad motives in somebody wanting this role.
Maybe they want the role more than the work.
First Peter 5 speaks of not lording it over those entrusted to you.
So, you know, church leadership isn’t about satisfying a power trip.
It’s not getting to the top of the org chart in the local assembly.
The only one at the top of the org chart is the one at the right hand of the Father in heaven, and others are under shepherds.
So it’s not a matter of getting to run the church our way, But that noble, motive that Mr. Gilliner just mentioned about recognizing the burdens of the people.
This is a service to carry out.
And to want to serve the people of God this way and support them and help them is a noble thing. It’s a noble desire.
And just running alongside that, Brother Matthew, you take David, who again became a great leader.
I think that very language is used of David.
The Lord raised him up as a shepherd of his people.

[14:20] He didn’t, it wasn’t so much that he saw the burdens, but he came to see the battle.
I know he was blamed for coming to see it in the wrong way, but he saw the battle and the struggle, and he saw the people of God in a situation of defeat, that they didn’t need to be in.
And having been concerned about the battle, in due time, David became the very man under God’s hand, who became a leader and brought them to victory, and brought them to freedom. So help us, Brother Matthew, just, it’s a question that I’m often asked, traveling about in places, about the recognition or the appointment of overseers.
Who appoints them, or how do you become an overseer?

[15:07] You have read a passage from Acts 20 that speaks about the Holy Ghost begging overseers.
And then you’ve read the passage in 1 Timothy about a man desiring to be an overseer.
And Titus was told to appoint overseers. So you say, which is it?
Does a man desire it? Does the Holy Ghost make a man an overseer?
Does someone else appoint him? You say, which of the three is it?
And so can you help us maybe in general on that whole subject.

[15:39] I don’t think that we’ve, I don’t think they’ve asked you to cross the ocean, you’re to ask the questions.
But you mentioned three things and I think it’s all three of those, right?
But can you go ahead and expand on that? No, surely, surely.
So one doesn’t exclude the other.
So the man is the burden and as the exercise and the spiritual desire, not the ambition for power, but the spiritual concern, care, desire.
And the Holy Spirit puts that in his heart.
So the Holy Spirit’s working. the man’s own exercise and then other brethren notice this developing exercise and they can encourage it. So all three, all three coal. But would it not be far easier maybe, should we not introduce a voting system? Would that not be a helpful thing? Democrats and Republicans. That’s not going too well. Well sheep don’t choose their shepherd, do they? That’s part of it. Were you going to say something there, Johnny? Looked like you were.
Yeah, no voting. No voting. That’s about it.

[16:48] That’s what you’re going to say. What about, though, so you’ve said there’s a desire within them, the Holy Spirit’s working, others are recognizing this. Is this something that should be formally announced to the assembly if the brothers want to bring someone else on to to join them in the work of oversight, should there be an announcement or should it just be obvious to everyone already?

[17:13] I personally, I think an announcement is part of doing things decently and in order.
It should be no problem.
But I think that it should already be so obvious to the believers that when the announcement is made, the announcement will mean very little.
Everybody say, if the announcement is made and everybody says, oh, what happened to him?
Did he go away for a weekend seminar and suddenly became an overseer?
If everybody’s shocked, something wrong. So if the brother hasn’t already shown the qualities, the announcement won’t validate it and the announcement wouldn’t suddenly make it.
If he has shown the qualities, the announcement will be decent and in order and mean very little, really.

[18:03] Yeah, I agree 100%, and I do know of situations where there never was any communication announced, and it does lead to some awkwardness.
If you asked, in fact, if you asked one of the overseers in this assembly, are you one of the overseers?
He kind of shrugged his shoulders, well, I don’t know, nobody ever told me that.
Well, that’s not very good. And then you ask the saints who are the overseers here, well, maybe this guy, maybe this guy. That’s not a good thing either.
So there should be communication, but it should not be a shock.
It should be obvious because you’re recognizing people who are already engaged in the work.
We’re in a situation, and this is, you may want to call this an argument from experience, but in a situation in Guadalajara where the brother that has been recognized as an overseer, there’s not been a formal announcement, and I actually think there should be, so it’s kind of hypocritical.
I think there should be an announcement for the man who is being recognized.
However, like Mr. Kanan said, it should be obvious to everyone.
But one of the ways that we found out that it was obvious to everyone, was actually sitting down with every member of the assembly individually.
Now this would be very difficult in a large assembly. I’m not sure how you do that logistically, but we’re small enough that we met with every single member of the assembly individually, including the wife of this man.

[19:17] And we actually went through 1 Timothy 3, every single characteristic, and for every, maybe you think this is too laborious, nobody’s gonna wanna come visit us and go to the heart, but anyway, we went through every single characteristic and said, does he qualify for this characteristic?
Does he qualify? Does he qualify? And thankfully, the answer was yes for every single one.
Even his wife agreed that he qualified for these characteristics.
Anyway, that’s another way of ascertaining, do the brethren have confidence in him?
Is he already your shepherd? Is he shepherding you right now?
Speaking to them on an individual basis.

[19:53] And what about if there is a brother whom the saints do perceive as doing this work and current overseers would love to have him formally, communicated as being in this work, but he’s maybe not willing to participate or he’s not willing to join them.
What would your advice be to him or to the brothers there?

[20:18] Well, I’m not sure, Matthew, but all I would say, speaking about and to that brother, if the Lord fits a man for a work, and the man reluctantly refuses to take that work, maybe he sees it’s going to be difficult, it’s going to be demanding, which is true of overseership, if he’s reluctant and refuses to take that work, he needs to be very careful that he doesn’t grieve the Lord. And there would then come into his life a state of spiritual stalemate.
Do what the Lord wants you to do, what he has fitted you for, no matter how difficult it is.
And if he puts you in a position, he will sustain you in it. But you refuse that position and stay back. Grieve the Lord, and you could just be left on your level of spiritual progress.
It. You know, we could selfishly try and retain a position for our own comfort zone and think we save our skin, save ourselves a whole lot of headaches, a whole lot of troubles. You, might save your skin and spoil your soul. So there’s far more to it than just, it’s, not just like a man being offered promotion in his work and he refuses that. Refuse to to do what the Lord fits you for.

[21:41] And there will be consequences for the other people and consequences for yourself as well.
I have a question for you, Matthew. So verse number one where it says, if a man desire, I see that as a first qualification, actually, would you agree with that?
There must be a desire. Right, so I’m thinking a little bit of 1 Peter 5 that says he’s to do it willingly, not by constraint or compulsion.
So a little bit of hesitancy might be encouraging, right? Because he recognizes the seriousness of what’s before him.
But so it’s not something I want to pull someone into kicking and screaming against their will because when things get hard, that’s not gonna be good.
And likely the risk of burnout for them is all the greater if this is something that they were really resisting.
But if God is fitting them for it, we trust there would be a desire, some hesitancy recognizing the weight of it, that’s one thing.
But there should be a willingness to obey what God is calling them to.
And sure, it can be an intimidating thing in some ways.
But I would just love to appeal to you with coming back to those five references to why the sheep need shepherds.
Christian life can be hard, and it’s easy for sheep to stray at times.
And there’s wolves and lions out there.

[23:00] And the people of God need to hear the perspective of godly wisdom and spiritual men with their experience.
So the people of God need shepherds.
So this is a noble thing. Remember in Acts chapter 20, Paul says he shed tears for that church in Ephesus.
Well, the Lord shed his blood for it.
So it’s a valuable thing. There’s nothing more valuable on the earth, by the way.

[23:26] Than the church of God, nothing.
Okay, it’s a greater market capitalization than Amazon and Apple and anything else.
It’s worth a lot. Christ has shed his blood for the church of God.
And the people of God matter. And if God is calling you for that, I appeal to you to be willing to obey the Spirit’s leading.
And just in connection with that, Matthew, isn’t it significant, thinking of the demands of the work and so on, that the Bible’s first shepherd had to pay the price of his own life?

[24:03] So being a shepherd will likely kill a man.

[24:09] I’m over-exaggerating. It’ll cost him his life. It’s not a hobby.
It’s not a side line.
I have known men, in my own experience, and I have no doubt that the weight and the care of a local assembly took them to their grave.
We can leave the Lord to deal with that, but it’s a lifelong commitment, very demanding, very draining, and very sacrificial.
And we’re encouraging you to do it, how about that?
But that shows that it is a Christ-like ministry.

[24:42] Some of you, there’s a couple of you probably in this room. I did do a little email survey a few years ago for another message and for ultimately for our podcast and I emailed a whole bunch of elders.
I got 37 responses across 16 states and provinces about one thing you would tell potential future overseers.
Listen to this one reply.
I believe the best sentence I could give is the final one that the Apostle Paul left with the elders from Memphis.
It is more blessed to give than to receive.
And a true overseer, if he’s going to be effective, must be committed to a life of giving.
Giving his time, finances, mental energies, his all, and he must do it for others at times with no thanks, so that Christ may be glorified in his body, whether by life or death.
Sounds to me like the brother who wrote those words has been through some stuff.
But it also shows this is a Christ-like ministry. This is a noble work.
And in 1 Peter 5, there is a promise that the chief shepherd will reward you.
He appreciates that shepherd care.

[25:44] I think we should move on. Anything else? Go ahead, Jonny. – I was just going to say about the counsel you’d give to somebody who’s intimidated by the prospect of it. We kind of already covered this a bit, but I think you should be having healthy intimidation.
– Yeah. – Right? So a healthy understanding of what it’s going to cost you. Don’t walk into, I’m going to say the oversight, maybe we could talk about that, but anyway, don’t walk into the elders in the assembly thinking that it’s going to be a bed of roses, it’s going to be fine, where I can leave a lot of these duties to the other overseers, and then you get in and you realize, as Mr. Gilliland just said, your life expectancy was just reduced by 30 years.
So, a healthy intimidation is good. Know what you’re getting into, but don’t let that stop you.
It’s worth it. That’s all I want to say. It’s maybe a little bit off-beam, Matthew, but I’m just wondering, and you may want to bring it up later, but anyway, We’ve been speaking about the brother’s exercise, the Holy Spirit’s enabling, and the other brethren encouraging.
There’s one thing I would say to overseeing brethren.
There’s a thing that I’ve observed happening quite often. There are certain brethren.

[26:59] And we’ve heard about character and so on, and vitally important, but unfortunately, there are certain brethren, And you never really see what they are, until they get power.

[27:15] And by the time they show what they are and have authority amongst the Lord’s people, it’s too late.
So just keep that in mind, brethren, and what you encourage, because you need to be careful you don’t encourage.
Just look for those tendencies, those domineering, bad-tempered tendencies in a man, those extreme outlooks and extreme attitudes, I mean, in a young man, and I think that those things, those things should make older brethren very wary to encourage such an individual into responsibility.
So David, I have a question about that. Later on in 1 Timothy chapter three, he gives a list for the deacons, and then he talks about a time of probation or a time of testing.
Do you think that could legitimately apply to the list for the elders as well?
Yeah, surely. Okay, so that would mitigate that.
Yeah, under observation. What would that look like?

[28:17] You’d ask me the question. Yeah. Do you mean that what the examination would look like or what? Yeah.
Yeah, I think it’s just the general, you know, it’s the general observation of how a man behaves.
Listen, we all know, I’m not thinking about oversight, just that we all know assembly life is very testy and we have a mixture of personalities and chemistry and you’re not just like everything and you have to take into consideration other people’s opinions and ideas.
And that happens right across the board. And if a person in early life shows himself or herself to, be intransigent, and it has to be my way or no way, very domineering and dictatorial.
Because it’s not only a man doing a work and looking after believers, looking after the assembly.
It’s a man on oversight, sharing, sharing in the presbytery.

[29:18] So he has to be able to work in fellowship and in harmony with other believers, not a one-man band.
And all of that, all of those things have to be taken into consideration, as you have said.
So a practical example of that could be something like bringing a brother with, let’s say a few elders are going on a visit, and maybe it’s gonna be a topic that’s not too sensitive, something that he could listen in on, and even ask him to contribute.
And so you’re listening to the way he answers questions, the way he handles people, that sort of thing.
Anyway, that’d be one example. Even inviting a brother into certain meetings that the elders might be having, invite him to listen, maybe even to contribute so you can hear the way that he reacts and the things that he says and so on.
Anyway, did you think of other examples how to do that?

[30:06] That could work, I’ll say this is a bit of a judgment call and in circumstances that could be fine.
In other circumstances that can lead to a bit of a pseudo elder role, which I have learned can also be very unhealthy for the flock because the flock is a bit confused.
Well is this guy one of the overseers or not?
And in fact that brother can be a little bit confused just as to how much authority he has in the local church as well.
So as long as communication is clear on that, Obviously, it’s a way to learn people’s ways and bring them along, but there’s overseers, but there’s not pseudo overseers, I know you know that.
No, and just in connection with that, Brother Matthew, again, I hope it’s a situation that has disappeared.
During COVID, a very challenging time, we all know that, and we’re not sitting in judgment.
Many decisions were made in the fear of the Lord, and brethren did their best in very, very difficult circumstances, and thankfully we have emerged from it.
But I noticed that during COVID time, what happened in many places, because of the medical side of things and this, that, and the other, there was almost, what would I call it, a medical oversight developed in the assembly, over against the local oversight.

[31:26] And the assembly was directed by the decisions of medical practitioners, not the oversight.
Now always, this is where it gets back to what our brother said about a pseudo oversight, always be very careful, dear brethren, about an oversight, and these are unbiblical terms, seriously unbiblical, but you know what I mean, an unofficial oversight, developing, working at a different level or behind the scenes from the official recognized oversea. And you get a two-tier thing going in the assembly, which is a recipe for division. But that’s only by the way.
That’s an issue in places where the deacons form a board, you know, you have a board of deacons and there’s kind of the battle between the elder board and the deacon board. And the deacons form almost like a shadow cabinet to the elder board. And so I think in connection with a brother’s comment.
It’s important, I think, to point out in chapter three of 1 Timothy, he’s not saying that the deacons, I don’t know if you were planning to mention deacons later, but the deacons are not recognized in the same way that an elder would.
Now we might differ on exactly how much recognition they’re given, I don’t know, we haven’t talked about this, but that’s for another time.
But they’re not recognized in the same way that elders are. So there should not be any competition, between two committees, as it were, in the assembly.
It’s the elders of the assembly, and they’re the ones that have authority over things to do with faith and practice.

[32:50] All right, I’m determined not to let the discussion go to deacons, there’s three brothers here and I suspect we’ll get four views probably.
So let’s move on. The characteristics of leaders, men whom we can follow.
The example of life is a big thing.
And I’m thankful that Johnny first mentioned this. This was the key thing in their character.
Robert Murray McShane, not part of a local church like we are, but pastor to flock there in the 19th century in Dundee, Scotland.
He said, my people’s greatest need is my own holiness.
That’s true.
That’ll make me a blessing to the people of God. And I just read recently in regards to pastoral ministry, your character will be tested more than your competency.
May be fair to say that your character is your competency.
Now, as you think about these lists, let’s say 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, if our brothers want to read anything from either of those, that’ll be helpful.
I would just like to know from them, if there’s one or two attributes that they would like to, maybe think are particularly needful to highlight today.
Think of those character qualifications. We’ve got them a little bit in 1 Peter 5, but especially Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3, any particular attributes you would like to highlight, brothers?

[34:08] It has always impressed me, brother Matthew, what isn’t said.
He’s to be righteous, he’s to be just, and dependable, and so on, faithful, and all these character features.
What does he work at? Is he a degree?
What kind of a vehicle does he drive? What university did he attend?
What official qualifications does he have?
Those kind of things, education, social status, family connections, we cut out of those things.
Very often, and they’re never mentioned in 1 Timothy or Titus.
It’s more a man’s character than his career. It’s more his character than his charisma.
And we need to keep, I think, keep the emphasis. And you mentioned any one of them stand out.
Maybe the one that stands out to me, Matthew, is the reputation in different forms of being sober-minded.
Suburban, vigilant, clear-headed.

[35:19] You know, I have known in my little experience, I’ve known assemblies where men got into power, and authority and positions. I don’t know about one way or another they did, and they weren’t, mentally stable. They were men off in the head, oddballs, just unusual characters.
And so, in oversight, there’s nothing so essential as being cool-headed, level-headed.
Don’t flare up with a raging temper, don’t quick take a knee-jerk reaction, don’t have hasty decisions.
Cool, calm, and collected, careful, sober, sober, sober, sober-minded, and all those words that feed into that area of thinking, those are the ones that impress me quite a, bit in those two lists.
That’s good advice for life. Don’t freak out when you don’t have to.

[36:15] Good. Johnny, what’s on your mind? I was thinking verse 5. Now, I know there’s exceptions to this, right?
Different family situations, but 1 Timothy 3 verse 5, starting at verse 4 actually.
One that ruleth well his own house.
So speaking of a time of testing, having his children in subjection with all gravity, for if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?
So it seems as if he’s emphasizing in fact here the family life or the home life of this, elder and it’s a testing ground where you can show and you can display these characteristics and then you can display them in the assembly. You can rule your own house and then you can rule in the assembly. Something I’ve noticed though, and I can say even in my own life.

[37:02] Is that the positive, just as the positive things that you do in your own house can be be replicated in the assembly.
The negative things and the sins and the way you treat your wife and the way you’re raising your children, sometimes we see that replicated in the assembly as well. And the way an elder is discipling his own children, that’s the way he treats the rest. The way he talks to his wife, that’s how he talks to the sisters. And so it’s almost genius, or of course it is, it’s inspired by the Spirit, but it’s very instructive and very helpful that he does emphasize the home life, before you’re ever in the assembly ruling the brethren.
Certainly an important way that we can gain or lose respect amongst the people of God, as well. That’s very valuable. Obviously, this isn’t something that you just, you know, turn on when your kids are 15 or 16. You’re in trouble then if that’s when you want to turn it on. Character isn’t something that we just turn on at the age of 30 or 40, which is why this is something to focus on starting today. As you’ve raised the issue about our home life.
Let me just ask you about one of the qualifications in particular, Titus 1.6, because people often wonder about this.
An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, with faithful or believing children.
How would you render that, and what does that mean for us today?

[38:24] Just as we come to that, this whole thing that we’re talking about, the correlation, the engagement between home life and assembly life, It’s the opposite in the world.
The man’s president.
He says, my home life’s nothing to do with that. He says, I can live in my private life and my personal life and I can live quite immoral or whatever way I like and do this and that and be quite outrageous, outlandish.
This is my official position.
It’s irrelevant. Whereas we come to the Scriptures as the very opposite.
What a man is at home feeds into what he is in the assembly and he cannot divorce the one from the other.
I’m maybe inclined just to…

[39:08] Is it Titus has the qualifier not unruly or given to riot? What does it say?
Having faithful children. Who are not accused of wildness or rebellion, yes.
Yeah, so I think maybe that additional clause Clarifies. Elucidates or amplifies what faithful means.
Not necessarily believers, but respectful to family life and so on.
Obviously we are responsible to create an environment in which our children would want to be saved, but that’s not something we control.
But we do have a lot of influence over whether they are wild or obedient.
I remember a brother asking one time at a conference, Bible reading, on Titus chapter one, he asked the brethren, he said, brethren, are overseers essential for the being of an assembly?
And so can you have an assembly without overseers?

[40:11] So one of the brethren, I thought, gave a very wise answer. He said, no, he said, overseers are not essential for the being of an assembly, but they are essential for its well-being.

[40:24] Yeah. Our brother Jonathan will know here, these brethren, you could go to an area, see number were saved, an assembly planted, and at that point there will be no overseer.
So the assembly is planted, but no overseers as such have developed.
I think the Holy Spirit will develop them remarkably quickly.
And while they’re not essential for the planting of an assembly, they will become essential for the preservation of an assembly.
If there was one of the attributes or calls for overseers’ qualifications that stood out to me just over the past week, it’s the words in Acts 20, Take heed or be on guard for yourselves.
That’s a striking thing. That’s the first thing he tells him.
He says, watch out for yourself. It’s the same thing Paul tells Timothy.
So my biggest threat, my biggest problem is not going to be difficult sheep.
It’s not gonna be my relationships with fellow shepherds. It’s not gonna be the world.
My biggest problem is gonna be me.
That’s my biggest danger, my own heart and my own sinful flesh.
And the needs of the flock and the needs for public participation can so occupy us that we can fail, to take care of our own heart.
And that’s dangerous. So Paul says to Timothy, He says, pay close attention to your life.

[41:45] Secondly, if I’m not taking care of myself, there is a greater risk of burnout as well. And so we need to be mindful.
I mean, that can still happen at times, but you’ve got to take care of your own heart, and your own walk with God, that’s number one.
That’s how you’re gonna be a better help to others.

[42:04] Just when you’re saying that, I was thinking immediately of John 21.
I know it’s not oversight in the sense, but the feeding of sheep.
But before the Lord Jesus asks the commissions, Peter, feed my sheep, he has already asked the disciples earlier in the chapter, have you any meat?

[42:26] He gets them off the boat. He gives them breakfast on the beach.
And when they have been feeding in his presence, and are personally satisfied from his hand, he then says, I have fed you, you have been at my table.
Now he says, feed my sheep.
And it’s very important, I would say, for all brethren, in feeding others, make sure that you also feed yourself.
And in looking after the sheep, and the cares of other people, and the worries of other people, and the demands of other people, in tending after all those things, and looking after the sheep, make sure that you don’t compromise your own enjoyment of the Savior, because it’s your fellowship with him that will give you the necessary spiritual energy to carry out the work.
All right, I wanna come to our final point, the charge to leaders, men who will feed and tend us.
We’ve thought a little bit about their character.
I want to think more now about the specifics of their ministry.
David, the time is 4.26. Can we go to 4.35, is that okay? You sure?
It’s hard for him to say no in public, isn’t it, like that?
But that was nice of him nonetheless.

[43:41] All right, the church is not a corporation. It’s a group of people.
So your calling as a shepherd is not, you’re not strengthening a system, you’re not building an organization.
You are taking care of people.
You’re serving people. That’s what the church is, is a group of people.

[44:01] What would you say are just one or two things that you think need to be the emphasis of their work?
And maybe I’ll ask you as well, at the same time, what are they likely to get sidetracked on and how do they avoid those traps.

[44:30] If someone just simply said to you, what is an overseer’s main responsibilities? What would you say?

[44:38] Well, it’s not the word feed, of course, as you have emphasized, is the word tend and shepherd and so on. First of all, sheep are very ugly animals. You know, this idea, lovely wee sheep, a lovely wee lamb, oh so cuddly and so nice, you just love to look after them.
Sheep in the Bible were awkward creatures. They get into all, they get trouble in their fleece, they get trouble in their eyes, they get trouble in their nose, they get clubfoot, they get tummy worms. It’s just endless. Looking after sheep and looking after human sheep is just as bad. That’s why God uses sheep. So, that you ask, what’s the work of a shepherd? Well it’ll start about 8 o’clock in the morning and finish at eight o’clock the next morning.
He’ll be visiting people that are sick.
He’ll be trying to recover people that are straying. He’ll be trying to look after people, encouraging people to eat that are not thriving and not developing.
He’ll have all kinds of situations and all of that will be very, very, very, very demanding.
I think he’ll fit into Psalm 23.
The Lord’s a good shepherd. What does he do? Well, he makes his sheep lay down.
Then he brings them to the still waters.
Even if they’re going through dark valleys, he stays with them.

[46:00] Then, if they’re in opposition and surrounded by enemies, he’ll give them a special portion, spread a table in the midst of their enemies.
That’s what the Lord does as a shepherd. I think a shepherd will do the same.
He’ll see that the sheep in the assembly are getting rested, they’re getting fresh water, they’re going into good pastures. Some of the sheep will go through dark valleys.
He’ll go and visit them, he’ll draw close, he’ll support them, and he’ll strengthen them.
And some sheep that are being exposed to special danger, he’ll give them special comfort and special training.
So, but maybe you’re looking for something beyond that, Brother Matty, or something extended. It’s all good.
I mean, if those few points you mentioned all show that the shepherd is going to have to be, in contact with the sheep, know them.
In fact, as I did that little survey, that was the most common response.
Obviously, a lot of brothers emphasize the need for knowing the word.
Of course, that’s vital.
But the most frequent response was the need to know the sheep and spend time with the sheep.
That’s why hospitality is mentioned. So often there’s something that will be easier dealt with around the table than from the pulpit.
And how do you recognize a shepherd? Well, a shepherd smells like sheep.

[47:12] And so he should be spending time with them and have them in his home and know what they’re facing.
And to do this proactively, right? Our impulse is, okay, they’re doing okay, good, okay, I don’t need to meet with that person, that’s all good.
Then crisis comes, and then you’re trying to deal with that.
But see, if there’s not that relationship in the first place, it’s very difficult to deal with the crisis.
Far better to be proactive, and to have built that rapport with them, and to know what’s going on in their life.
And I mean, in a sense, I know it’s overwhelming. We’re not gonna be perfect, but the attempt to be proactive, and to spend time with them, and you meet them for coffee and you have them in your home, that stuff is key to know what their struggles are in life and how best you can help them, and what words of teaching they need as well.

[48:00] I think it was Mr. Hull that I heard once give a message on a shepherd and how to man it.
He said, the shepherd’s eye, you need to see.
A trained shepherd can just look through the flock, can walk gently through them, and there’s a sheep not in good form, his eye.
There are overseers, and when they meet a Christian, they can tell by looking at them, there’s a Christian down, there’s a Christian needs attention.
His eye, his ear. You need to hear a sheep bleeding, some situation of emergency. His arms, you need to have strong arms, sometimes can lift the sheep. His feet, his legs, sometimes he’ll have to travel over rocky roads and thorny thickets to reach sheep that are in difficulty.
And most of all, not just his eye and his ear and his mouth, my sheep hear my voice. He’ll speak, in words that’ll give them guidance, not just his arm to support them, not just his feet to find them.

[49:06] But most of all, he’ll need a heart to love them and to appreciate.
One thing I was gonna ask, and I see your time, I’m not gonna hold you up, Brother Matthew.
The Apostle Paul here in Acts 20, he says about these overseers, you take heed of yourself, and the Holy Ghost has made you overseers.
And then he says of your own selves, things will happen, divisions will come in of your own.
You say, but these men were made overseers by the Holy Spirit.

[49:38] We sometimes say, if an overseer goes wrong, we say, ah, the trouble was, he never should have been an overseer. The Holy Spirit never made him an overseer.
That gets us out of it. Never should have been an oversight Holy Spirit, but the Apostle Paul says to these men, He says, the Holy Ghost made you overseer.
And he says, from you, Holy Ghost-appointed overseers, there’s gonna rise trouble.
So the fact that the Holy Spirit, through the Holy Spirit, a man has become an overseer, it doesn’t reduce the need for self-vigilance and looking to himself.
He could be a Holy Ghost-appointed overseer and yet later go wrong, according to Acts chapter 20.
But I hope that hasn’t derailed what you’re saying there.
We’re good. You made a comment earlier about what overseers are not called to do.
Yeah. Okay. Uh-oh, it’s got something coming here. So, let me put it positively.
As far as I can see in the scriptures, to proclaim and protect.
Proclaim the word, feed the flock of God, and protect the flock, just like we were hearing in Acts 20.
Those are the things that we’re supposed to be doing but overseers as well. Now, if you don’t do those things, if you go outside of those categories…

[51:01] I’d almost want to say you’re clearly on prohibited ground. Not prohibited, but you know what I mean. You’re not doing the job you were called to do. So, for example, if your work as an overseer consists of inviting speakers, of cleaning the hall, of doing practical things, around the building and among the believers and that sort of thing, I think you’re spending your time doing things that you weren’t called to do. I don’t want to be too harsh, but, If we stick to those two categories, which I think encompass quite a few things, that we see in Acts 20, 1 Peter 5 and 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1.

[51:39] To proclaim the word of God and to protect the sheep, what you will find is that there actually isn’t any more time to do anything else.
If you’re doing those things. So obviously in some small assemblies, brothers are doing more.
But one of the reasons that happens, I mean, I would love to get this across to you as younger brothers. You know, you’re not gonna come on to oversight, you’re not going to become an overseer so that you can choose the carpet color, okay?
Like, you know, please spare me.
But if you do choose, choose a good one. But I mean, it’s not really your work.
So here’s the point. Why does that happen?
Because you feel a sense of responsibility and you care.
And well, somebody has got to do it.
So here’s what we need. Obviously there needs to be a part, there needs to be a willingness on the part of overseers to delegate and assign responsibility to others.
And there needs to be a part in the rest of us, a willingness to step up and take responsibility for things, to free them for this work of proclaiming and protecting.

[52:40] That double side there in Titus chapter one, they are to encourage with sound teaching and refute those who contradict it.
Obviously, we’ve got to know the word.
We need to know, have some sense of awareness of what’s out there in the culture, in the evangelical culture.
Like think of this ready, not already, not yet. If I heard a young brother mention that in a Bible study at home, use that phrase, already not yet.
The phrase in itself is not bad, like Johnny said, but as soon as I hear that, I’m thinking, okay, this guy’s probably reading some different stuff.
And it’s good to have an awareness of that. But I can’t be aware of everything.
But I can know the Bible well.
And if I know the word well, I’ll be able to sense when something is a little bit astray.
So knowing the scriptures is key. Applying the scriptures is key.
Those are the vital things. We do gotta wrap up, don’t we, David? All right, okay.
Sorry we couldn’t do more. Thank you for your attention.
Thank you very much, brothers, for your help.
I know it’s a bit haphazard.

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